By Susan Estrich
"None," the police officer in charge reported to my student. That was the answer to how many instances of rape of males and boys had been reported in the city (it happened to be Boston, where I was teaching at the time) in the previous year.
We need more men on our team. We need to bring male rape into the 21st century. None was never the true answer. It certainly isn't today. What none means is that serious criminals are getting away with rape, and boys and men are suffering the stigma of shame along with the pain and anguish of brutalization. And they still are...
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/20/111011.shtml
More Vicious Than Rape
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/11/congos_wounds_o.php
(Ribbet!)
I don't exactly consider myself a feminist, but this is an issue about which I can easily get enraged. The above-mentioned article talks about male rape (and I have included the link to Susan Estrich's article because I printed some lines from it.)
However, the more relevant article is the one below it titled "More Vicious Than Rape". Yes, it's gawdawful. However, it's important that you read it because it provides an important perspective. Women all over the world are being used for terrible sexual purposes.
Either as weapons in war, or by having their genitals scraped away with broken glass or rusty metal--with no anesthesia--by the muslims (when they are not having acid thrown in their faces, or burned in suttee, or as victims of an 'honor killing'--or just a thrown away fetus because the family prefers boys), woman are treated like garbage all over the world. This must be addressed before we even get to the subject of male rape.
Not only are the numbers so entirely disproportionate, but the size and strength differential of men vs. women is enormous. In so many societies, woman also have no social power with which to deal with this--many times not even literacy. At least, with a man--where so many these rapes happen to men who have landed in prison--a relatively fair fight could be had, one-on-one.
With woman, she often must face a foe who weighs a hundred pounds more than she does and is much stronger--someone who has the power of the courts on his side. Men that rape women are deliberately picking on someone weaker and smaller than themselves--and it's time someone got serious about it.
And who is it that must get serious about it? It's the MEN. I have never heard a man speak out against the rape of women. Never.
In all my 53 years, never have I heard one man bring it up. Most especially have I never heard a man speak out against it at an all-male gathering. In every single class I had in school, where the subject of violence against women was brought up, there was always a guy who jumped up--and before a single sentence could be uttered on our behalf--he'd say "well, um, well um, what about women who hit men, huh, huhh?" And then everyone would groan and the round-robin would start and the subject would be tabled--as if what he said evened things out and made them commensurate.
NOT ONE MAN EVER STOOD UP AND SAID "Raping women is wrong, it's weak, and I deplore it--and I plan to do something about it."
Even all the fine men I know on the Internet--and I know some very good ones--have never said it, either. The subject hasn't always come up, but with the spate of continual 'honor' killings, rapes, and murders of the women who are accosted by muslims, or in the Congo, or who walk around Europe uncovered, there has been plenty of opportunity for them to comment.
It is men that have the power--and men who listen to other men. Just like bull elephants are needed to keep the younger males elephants in line, it's time MEN spoke out against the rape and sexual abuse of women to other men; that may give us gals a little breathing room in which to consider how they'd feel if it happened to them.
Now this is what I'm talking about. You can write, sister. I fully expect to see an essay of yours published on American Thinker or elsewhere sometime soon.
ReplyDeleteAnd the topic you raised is so true. I hope and pray that men of influence shuffle off their metrosexual coil one day and become men again.
Love, love, love real men.
Thank you, Surfie--I'll do more of them--setting up a blog just takes a lot of time, and so does writing them. I wrote this one because I was so tired of the usual talk about rape--if anything it's gotten worse. I figured the top of the food chain--those strongest in society--needs to deal with it's unruly members and then I started to listen to conversations to see if men were aware of the problem. They weren't; I never even heard them mention it.
ReplyDeleteSince they were the ones who do it, I figured they were the ones who needed to solve it. I'm tired of women's consciousness raising groups!
Froggy, you have put me in an mentally awkward position. Of all the men I've ever met, I know of no one that didn't find crimes like rape(any type) utterly abhorrent to their soul. So, whom do we voice our rage to except politicians and law-keepers that neglect their oath of office and we do that at the voting booth. Our other alternative is to take the law into our own hands and break our oath to the Constitution and to our God.(Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.) If I've misunderstood the gist of your reasoning, then please forgive me because we both know that the written word can be misinterpreted.
ReplyDeleteI know most men surely do find rape to be an awful thing and I didn't mean to suggest they did not. However, it is a silent stance. Where are the Rotary Clubs, or Lions, the Masons or Shriners, churches, YMCAs, Boy's Clubs, mentoring programs to give a lecture about it and have an all-male discussion?
ReplyDeleteWhere is law enforcement, Diversion programs, or the Sheriff's Department to do this?
Why can we talk about homosexuality, transgenderisms, 'bad touching' etc. in the schools--but not about the range of sexual offenses that build up to rape (even within the home; I'm tired of watching Dr. Phil and hearing about how a gal was molested when she was 8,9,13 etc. but had no one to tell, and no language in which to tell it)?
It's not just a matter of voting about it or shooting a suspected rapist dead. There's a whole range of actions that could be taken against rape, education about rape, and making it known that this is totally unacceptable--that MEN find it unacceptable.
To know what I am talking about just think back to all the times you were in a group of just men--at the VFW, golf course, local watering hole... have YOU ever brought it up among your buddies? Have they ever brought it up to you? (The most I've ever caught wind of was when a guy I worked with was talking about his ex and said 'yeah, the bitch said I raped her...') Not very useful.
We have to start talking about this openly in society--and without the standard shibboleths and cliches--and let the meme go out, and build, that rape is NOT okay!
Women have talked about it for centuries and we haven't made a dent in it. If anything, it is much worse. I thought about it and realized that we haven't made a dent because we're not the one who have the most power in society--and we're not the ones doing the rapes.
If men were going to listen to us on the subject, they already would have. Now the men need to listen to other men.
P.S. Women cannot solve this problem; we've tried. We don't do the rapes, and we don't have the power to make men stop the ones they do. MEN need to stop other MEN from doing them. They are the group doing the behavior and they are the ones who have most power on earth.
ReplyDeleteAnything else is leaving this issue where it has always stood--at a stalemate--and continuing apace. I am not willing to believe that humans are such animals that we cannot greatly reduce abhorent behavior. G*d does not want that either.
Tikkun Olam, Phooey, Tikkun Olam.
Froggy, it is by custom, culture, tradition, ignorance, and political correctness fear that men(and women) during casual conversation(group or otherwise) limit their views to the silly and banal. Seldom is anything of import broached due to cowardness or sensitivities of others.Politics, religion, and sex or anything of serious note are the famous no-no's of
ReplyDeleteetiquette. Most of company parties wind up with women grouped doing their thing and men on the other side of the room doing theirs. Normally with men it's drinking, telling the latest dirty joke and talking sports. Boring! I would prefer a discussion of quantum mechanics, chemistry, or anyone's original idea on any subject. If I brought up the subject of rape, in short order I would be standing along. Aha! I just talked myself into seeing your point of view!! 'Real' men should(without being obnoxious) topic the subject! And, be satisfied with their effort. Standing along is not bad when your in the right. Sorry for being so slow.
You're not being slow, Phooey! The idea! You're one of the smartest and kindest men I know!
ReplyDeleteI know your point about social custom--and you're right--but that is the very thing that must change.
I just so tired of hearing women's groups talking about it--talking about it, and talking about it--and whenever the woman's studies class, consciousness raising group, or sex ed sociology lecture ended, one of us could still be raped walking to the parking lot and nobody could do a thing about it.
That's when I realized we needed something else besides women chattering about it--because that doesn't change a thing. It never has.
Thank you Phooey for not yelling at me--most men are not so polite when I bring this up... And you're right; you would be standing alone for awhile whenever you'd bring it up.
ReplyDeleteTo the men who are not-so-nice about this I would say 'you have to stand alone vs. women getting raped? I'd say that's a small price to pay in comparison'. The trade off is your mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, and granddaughters being safer. And if men made it an acceptable topic, you wouldn't be standing alone for long ;-)
I was raped when I was a 16 year old virgin. I was simply loading things into the back seat of my car when a man shoved me into the back seat and raped me. I felt more ashamed than angry at the time.
ReplyDeleteThen there was the time when I had to work late and my boss asked the security guard to escort me to my car. He started putting his hands on me once we got into the parking garage. Being experienced (and him being a fat old fart) I punched him in the face and he backed off.
Here is what makes Froggy's point: When I told my boss (partner in a big-dog lawfirm) about it, he was all empathetic but did NOTHING. I filed complaints and got the guy fired. My boss DID NOTHING.
Men get raped in prison. Cry me a river. Men don't get raped while loading groceries into their car or walking their dog or leaving their office late at night.
I am completely ticked off all over again, and I see that as a healthy state of mind.
It grieves my heart that that happened to you, Surfie. Really. I've just had a guy pin me to the wall by the time clock every morning and force a kiss on me until I could shove him away, after he put his hands all over me, and I've had unwanted sex pushed on me during a date.
ReplyDeleteAnd your right; when you do a crime and get thrown into prison, you pretty much know what you can expect. Men and boys do get raped outside of jails--especially children, it seems, and I have all sympathy for them, too.
So inadequate here. One mistake with a word, then my name is Mudd. Froggy, why would I yell at you? You do no wrong in expressing your opinion of men's seemingly callous nature. Surfie, words fail me. I am so sorry. Will do my best to bring awareness of this epidemic to others. Love to you both.
ReplyDeleteI love you, Phooey; you could do no wrong here that I wouldn't forgive. And I know many, many good men like yourself. However, us gals can't tell the good from the bad on sight, so it makes us very, very careful in life. I don't go to basement timeclocks with a male coworker to clock in and Surfie looks around good before she puts her groceries in her car or unloads her dry cleaning. And we were just doing small, ordinary daily things. When I was on my own and dating, it was two YEARS before I'd climb in a car and go to the movies with a guy or out to dinner--and STILL was put into a few situations where I was touched against my will. I think, for good men like yourself, Phooey, you might underestimate how pervasive this is. I know many many women who, if you asked them, would say no this never happened to them because it is so ordinary they forget Uncle Charlie kissing them on the mouth when they were 12 with his hands on their bottom, or that they finally gave in to sex on a date because an ugly situation was brewing and this was the safest thing she could do (and she was going to be violated one way or the other.)
ReplyDeleteAnd, here in America, we have the best of it. I thank G*d and bless Him everyday that I was not born in Africa or the middle east. And it's STILL something we can't prevent. That's why I feel as strongly as I do, Phoo.
I listen at my front door to hear if there is any noise in the hall.
ReplyDeleteI look down and make sure I'm wearing something that covers me.
I slowly open the door and glance out to see if anyone is in the hall.
I walk carefully to the elevator to see if there's anyone at the cross hall.
I press the elevator button.
I look to see which 3 elevators are coming up and I prepare myself if they stop on my floor.
I step back if someone is getting off and have a good look at some distance at them.
If a man is on the elevator, I often pretend I've forgotten my keys, or I make sure I know him, saying a firm hello and squaring my body and folding my arms hard in front of my body before we ride downstairs with my keys ready.
I watch carefully who gets on as we go down the dozen floors.
If too many men get on, or I don't like the looks of some of them, I get off and wait for another elevator.
I listen to the noise on each floor to see if any trouble is brewing.
In the lobby I wait for the door to open and cautiously step out to see what's going on.
I look outside and see who is approaching the glass doors to come in the building.
I listen for the trash and laundryroom doors opening and closing.
I listen to the side halls, and then I get what I came for and reverse this process, until I am back in my apartment.
What have I done? I have just gotten the mail.
Sure, this heightened awareness only takes seconds, and it's automatic, and I think most women learn to do it without even knowing they do it. But why should we HAVE to? And we can be this careful everytime and STILL get assaulted--and STILL get blamed for it, while the courts do nothing. Why? Because of custom? Then custom needs to change.
There's my whole rant!
Brava, Froggy. Well said. I'd like to talk more about this but can't do it right now.
ReplyDeleteSurfie, I too, am outraged at your assault. And Donal, I'm sorry about your horrible experiences too. It's very sad that this is still happening to women and girls in our country. When I think back to my late teens, I had a number of close calls, but managed to get out of those unwanted predicaments with a too friendly date, or a guy who I thought of as a friend, who suddenly wanted a whole lot more.
ReplyDeleteNot all of us are so lucky. About 20 yrs. ago, our friend's 15 yr. old daughter was raped. She didn't tell them right away, as she was embarrassed and in shock. It took a while for her to get up the courage to tell them. However, they noticed changes in their daughter; personality changes, and her choice of dress. She became very withdrawn, and started wearing baggy clothes. When they finally learned the truth, she told them the boy who had raped her was her good friend, the boy next door. They talked to the boy's parents, who said their daughter was lying. It got very ugly. Lawyers were involved. Finally, since their daughter hadn't told them about it soon enough for a rape kit, and the boy denied it, they had nothing to go on. The neighbors made their lives a living hell, until our friends finally decided to move. This was at a time when homes were hard to sell, and they ended up selling their house at a huge loss. Once their legal bills were paid, the only home they could afford was a double wide mobile home, way out in the country. It was cramped as the family had four children, but at least their daughter didn't have to look at her rapist every day. It's really sad that this can happen in our country, and that a rapist can continue his life, and not bat an eye, while his victim and her family have to change their whole way of living. Something needs to change.
Brava indeed, Froggy. Please understand that this is the very first time in my life that this subject has been presented to me. Page has never spoken of this before. I plead ignorance and sure the guys I've befriended would do likewise. Froggy, sure would like to see your last comment ported over to Lucianne where thousands potentially could read it. You know the rules don't allow linking back to a blog. Daily prayers from this day forward for you gals safety and security. God be with you!
ReplyDeleteThank you, Phooey--and that was EXACTLY my point. If men talked about rape, if schools, and Boy's Clubs, the military (who ought to know about it because it is use as a deliberate weapon of war that is devastating--read about the Congo and Haiti, etc.), and folks in regular conversation brought it up--all male groups brought it up, you wouldn't have had to wait 65 years to have heard about it. Most men will never hear about it, less will even talk about it--and that's why we can't stop it.
ReplyDeleteAnytime, Surfie--it stays on my mind. Paget I sure am sorry for those people and all the trouble they had behind that. Thank G*d they were thinking of their daughter and were in a position to do something about it. Imagine having to live next door to that bast*** and see him everyday!
ReplyDeleteHere I am, 40 years after being raped. I've been manhandled and told off-color jokes from men over the years. None of them left without at least an earful from me.
ReplyDeleteLike Froggy asked: Why is it up to women to punch a guy in the nose or give him his dressing down at an office party when gobs of men are standing around and saying NOTHING. Why?
Thank you, Froggy! It's in the Connection Lobby. Looking forward to the comments. Wish I had real solutions other than the ones I've stated. Will do my best in the awareness area. Praying that your writing will receive God's blessing. Again, thank you for permission. I love you all.
ReplyDeleteThat's so nice of you, Phooey. I never thought I'd ever write anything anybody would want to repost. How kind of you! You are so naturally thoughtful! Give Ms. Page a kiss for me tonight; Sissy's back is just like hers.
ReplyDelete